this morning -- a special edition of "this week." >> what's happening? oh, my god! >> oh, my gosh. seven down in theater nine. colorado catastrophe. >> the first time that i have seen something real, like a real-life nightmare. >> i got a child victim that i need rescued. >> 12 killed. 58 wounded. >> we have taken a blow today. but we will get back on our feet and we will move ahead. now 48 hours after the worst mass shooting in america's history, as the nation mourns the victims, the search for answers. >> if there's anything to take away from this strategy, it's the reminder that life is very fragile. why do these tragedies continue? can anything be done to stop them?

>> if you think we're angry, we sure are angry. >> we'll get to the heart of the questions and all of latest on the investigation. the killer, the innocent victims and a community shattered. special coverage of the tragedy in colorado, the movie theater massacre, begins now. good morning. in aurora, colorado, this morning, a memorial to victims in that nightmare that unfolded early friday morning. president obama will visit aurora later today to console the families of those lost. as police piece together the mind of the killer. america responds to horror. our guests and experts are standing by to weigh in. we begin in aurora with abc's cecilia vega, and cecilia, this is town that has been hit so

hard. >> reporter: yeah, george. everybody reeling out here. good morning to you. the president arrives at 4:00 this afternoon. we're told that he'll be meeting with the victims who are still in the hospital, the families of those who have passed away out here, as well as state and local officials. as for those victims, we now know all of their identities. the coroner releasing them yesterday. these stories are so tragic out here. stories of courage. men who jumped in the line of fire to protect their girlfriends. and the youngest victim, just 6 years old. she came here with her mother, that mother remains in critical condition today. as for the shooter and the shootings, authorities spent the day all day yesterday at the shooter's apartment here in aurora, trying to get inside this building. they said that this was a complex scene, a chilling scene inside the apartment of trip wires and booby traps. the police chief said that it was set up to kill the first person who walked through the door.

again, authorities aren't saying what the motive was. holmes remains in custody here, his first court appearance is tomorrow morning. george? >> all right, cecilia, thank you. we want to get more on james holmes now from our justice correspondent, pierre thomas, who has more on the investigation, and everything we are learning so far, this was a cold-blooded, premeditated plan. >> reporter: cold-blooded. he developed an execution plan that he put in place that worked to perfection, according to my sources, also the time and effort in terms of putting together that booby-trapped apartment. shows the intensity and the focus. i was struck by one source today who said that this was really like a mad scientist. really like a villain in a movie. >> he was pulling in materials for a couple of months, getting a lot of packages at home, we know that he bought thousands of rounds of ammunition and guns. you described it, on friday, as having a clean skin. nothing in his background that

could tip authorities off. >> only a speeding ticket. he could buy guns. >> but we're learning, as you said, a lot more about him. you described him as a mad scientist. he's a brilliant young man. >> brilliant. that's what made him so dangerous. one cop i talked to yesterday, said most criminals are stupid. but this guy was thoughtful and brilliant. we have some new information about what they're finding at the apartment, we're being told that they have found a computer and also, a poster of batman. >> okay. he said he was the joker. let's get to more with mayor of aurora, steve hogan, and governor john hickenlooper. mayor, do you have any other information about why this man might have done this? >> no, we don't have anything else right now. it's a very, very cold-blooded, calculated, isolated instance. and it's tragic.

and it's horrible for those families and it's hurt the community. >> and we heard from your police chief, real rage. >> absolutely. you know, aurora is a great place to be. it's been tough for our citizens, our responders were -- our first responders were fantastic. but it's clear. that apartment was set up to kill the first person who walked through the door. and more than likely that was a police officer. >> governor, i heard you describe mr. holmes as a kind of terrorist, what did you mean by that? >> well, i think that, if you look at his intent, maybe wasn't political, but what he was, i mean, he was clearly deranged, twisted, demonic in some way, and he wanted to create fear, intense fear. he wanted to create terror. >> in the minds of the people in

that theater, and of course, across the community, mayor hogan, how is the community coping with all this as the loss sinks in? >> i think we're going to be starting that grieving process, we'll then start the healing process. certainly the vigil tonight will help. there have been other vigils the past couple nights that have been organized by others and they're needed. they're desperately needed. you know that, i can see that building out of my office, it's not more than five blocks away and i see it every day, i know that i'm going to relive part of this for months. families are. the community is. so, but we got to start that process. we can't -- we can't let this guy win. we have to start healing and we have to start creating a better aurora today. >> and governor, you talked about the response plan that was put in place that probably saved

many lives, as the mayor said earlier, it's a miracle here that the killing wasn't even worse. >> well, it's amazing. i mean, the state is heartbroken and i think the country is heartbroken. yet, you look at the response of first responders and chief oates of the police talked about this, they had police there within a couple of minutes. ambulances there within three minutes. they have doctors and nurses and medical personnel, all coming into these hospitals, at seven different hospitals, between that and the heroism, people really stand in front or lie on top of others to protect and save them. you know, i don't know how to express it, except to say that it was for all of despair and anguish, there are the shining lights of caring people helping. a kid, his mother always said, whenever you see a disaster on tv, look for the caring people.

they're always caring people trying to give comfort. in a way that kind of help lifts spirits. >> and governor, i know you and members of your cabinet spent a lot of time at area hospitals yesterday meeting with the injured and families of the victims. >> we had our cabinet, we sent out on friday morning. at every hospital, we had, answer questions. loved ones end up in different hospitals. they don't know the condition of their boyfriend or girlfriend, or spouse or child. cabinet members, like the secretary of human services, you know, the senior people were there and they knew the right channels so that they could get that information in realtime back to the people. we visited a number of families and victims. i heard a number of times of how grateful people were for that support. >> and, mayor, what kind of stories are hearing? >> certainly, concern about their family, we saw some people

yesterday, who are still terribly injured and may not make it. everybody's concerned about their family. but, as the governor said, they understand the community fears. you know, our victims services people, are getting out into the various hospitals. we're contacting not only those who are still in the hospital but those who are injured and are not hospitalized. it's just -- it's an impossible situation to understand. and, we're still trying to -- we're still trying to deal with all of it. you see people who were -- who were hurt very badly at 2:00 in the morning and are sitting up in their bed talking. you see other people who -- who just simply aren't moving and are still facing serious, serious surgery. so, it's just a terrible situation.

>> boy, it certainly is. but, as you can imagine, governor, the debate of whether this could have been prevented has already begun. you probably heard the comments from the mayor of new york, bloomberg, who made calls for tougher gun laws. several in your state saying, perhaps, if someone else in that theater had a gun, the killer could have been stopped. does it make you think at this point that you need to take another look at colorado's gun laws? >> you know, i'm sure that's going to happen. but i look at this, this wasn't a colorado problem, this is a human problem, right? how we can have such a warped individual and no one around him be aware? i worry if we got rid all of the guns. but, even if you didn't have access to guns, this guy was diabolical. right? he would have found explosives, he would have found something else, some sort of

poisonous gas to create this horror. >> mayor, no one in the community seemed to have had any, any inkling at all that there was something wrong with this young man? >> absolutely not. he appeared to everyone to be very normal, an intelligent guy, he was a student, came here a couple of years ago from california. he was taking classes that at the university of colorado medical center. he just, by every standard, appeared normal. clearly, there's something wrong here. >> did he have friends? did he make connections? did he put down any roots in the community? >> he had friends. he had made connections. he had people that he went drinking with on friday night. all of the comments to date are

normal guy, just something very seriously wrong here. >> boy, it's just so hard to wrap your mind around what could make someone like that snap, governor? >> it's inconceivable. but i think, ultimately, we'll get the experts and they'll, i mean, he's alive. we're going to study, we're going to try to figure out what went wrong, but in the meantime and i think mayor hogan and his team have been incredible at this, the key is to bring out the resilience. what a terrorist is trying to do is make people scared of going to a movie. my chief of staff's daughter is in her early 20s, took a whole gang of kids to see batman, to make a statement, to prove that we're not going to

give in to this. at the same time, say, you know this country is defined by freedom and the pursuit of happiness and that we're not going to let this guy ruin our lives. >> and finally, mayor hogan, what do you hope to hear from president obama today and how do you want your town to respond? >> well, i think the president coming in is a wonderful gesture. he's coming in, really, to have private conversations with the families. i think that's totally appropriate. you know, as the governor's indicated before, he certainly could have come to the vigil, but that would have made the focus on the president, not on the community, and he was well aware of that. i'm not so sure that it's a message to the community other than him coming here, it's more of a message to the families and to the victims and i think that's totally appropriate. i thank him for doing so.

i wish he -- i wish we weren't part of what he had to do this day. but it certainly means a lot to aurora to know that the president cares. i talked with him on friday. a personal conversation. told him that i deeply appreciated that pho call. we have had numerous other contacts literally from around the world. we know people care. we know in this time of instanteous communications that people know what's going on. and there's still feelings on human kind. and, the city will go on. we'll get better. we're -- we're a great place. but, we need a little bit of time to grieve and then start to heal and it's just good to know that others care. >> our condolences to you, your families and everyone in your community. thank you for joining us this

morning. >> okay. >> thank you. and for more on how law enforcement officials across the country, are responding in the wake of this shooting, we're joined by charles ramsey, thank you for joining us, commissioner, you joining us, commissioner, you have the four largest police department in country right now, what kind of measures did you put in place after this shooting? >> we have special attention being paid to movie theaters and other locations where large number of people gather. the issue for me, i can't put a cop in every movie theater, from now on, at a shopping mall or high school. and these are all places that we have had mass shootings in the past. we got to find a solution beyond that. >> have you seen any incidents at all? >> no, we haven't seen anything, fortunately we haven't. incidents like this, fortunately,, don't occur every day. what happens every day, there is gun violence on our streets every day.

>> what do you think should be the beginning of coming up with a solution? >> for me, the question has been, what will change as far as any gun control legislation in wake of aurora, columbine, virginia tech, ft. hood, i mean, the list goes on and on. and, unfortunately, in my opinion, the answer is absolutely nothing, there will be a lot of talk and discussion and debate. but this will fade into the background. and people will just go on and continue to be able to get their hands on guns and continue to inappropriately use those guns to commit violent acts. on the streets of our cities. >> commissioner, how do you respond to those who said, in the wake of the shooting, if someone else in that theater had a gun, the killer might have been stopped? >> this guy had body armor from head to toe. you had tear gas in there and unfortunately, many states, i don't know about colorado, but many states that authorize

conceal carry, have no provisions at all for people to receive training, proper handling of firearms, now you got two people randomly shooting in a movie theater, i don't know how that helps. >> another thing that came out of this, background checks, didn't turn up anything on james holmes, he had a pretty clean record. >> no, and listen, gun control isn't going to totally stop this sort of thing from happening. but what i deal with is the day-to-day violence that takes place on the streets of philadelphia. we had a person shot and killed in broad daylight yesterday. yesterday, we had homicide in the result of gun violence. we had a party in north philadelphia where five people were shot, fortunately, none killed. this is a daily occurrence for me. and chiefs across the country, so this is not just one incident, where people are able to get their hands on firearms. although, i have an issue with

people being able to buy ammunition on the internet. i don't know why people need to have assault weapons. there needs to be reasonable gun control put into place. we talk about this constantly and nothing ever happens. >> last question, what precisely >> last question, what precisely would you do? >> i don't think i would ban all guns. that's not the solution. most people are reasonable and legitimate gun owners. but why not have registration, why not have mandatory recording of any sale or transfer of a firearm that's done privately. why not ban assault weapons and ban large-capacity magazines? we don't need this stuff. and you need serious consequences for people who use handguns. and we're joined once again by our senior justice correspondent pierre thomas, correspondent pierre thomas, abc legal analyst dan abrams and dr. richard besser. pierre,

you heard from the commissioner, no incident in philadelphia last night. is that what we're hearing from law enforcement across the country? >> so far, we're hearing, people are going to the movie, they're having a good time, no incidents. they were concerned on friday about copy-cats. the thing that struck me about all of this is that, we'll be having this conversation about another incident like this, it may take days or months, but you have a situation in this country, where there are so many weapons in this country and disturbed people. virginia tech, 2007, mass shooting, dozens killed. ft. hood, texas, 2009, another mass shooting. tucson, just last year. >> at the same time, you also cover homeland security, the counterterrorism beat, no connection, this is a person acting alone from everything we know, no connection to terrorism, but my question is, as you have been reporting, homeland security officials are most concerned about a lone wolf like this, perhaps, going into a movie theater with

a suicide bomb, a train station with a suicide bomb, how do they explain why that hasn't happened more? >> they're concerned about that. what we're seeing more and more are these disturbed people. someone who might be associated with al qaeda, influenced by al qaeda, might do something like this. but they're perplexed as to why groups like that haven't tried this. it would clearly be effective. they're scratching their head on why it hasn't happened. >> let's go ahead to dan right now. we know that mr. holmes is going to appear in court tomorrow for the first time and he almost certainly is going to be facing a death penalty case. >> absolutely. we're talking about 12 people dead. many more attempted murder charges as well. he'll have no chance at bail. not just because of the crimes themselves, but because he remains a danger to society. based on the booby-trapping. interestingly, on tuesday, his attorney is going to get access to the movie theater, that's pretty unusual, before the

theater gets it back its own property -- >> why is that happening? >> i think they're trying to bend over backwards, do everything by the books. i think they know they have such a strong case against him already. they want to make this clear that we're giving him any and all rights. >> this is clearly a disturbed person. you say at first, whether he can stand trial? >> two separate questions. right? eve everyone is talking about, is he going to plea insanity? but the first question is, is he competent to stand trial? he has to be able to communicate with his lawyer. the real basics here, there have been cases were courts have simply determined that they don't understand what's happening around them.

that's going to be question one in the legal proceedings. >> and he seemed to have been clear-headed in the moments after the shooting. talk more about the insanity defense? >> lot of people talk about the insanity defense, as if people win in the insanity defense. they almost always lose. he would have to literally show that he didn't understand right from wrong. as hard as it is, juries are very reluctant to accept that. they almost never accept the notion that someone who did this with this much premeditation and with this much care and with this much malice, simply didn't understand what he was doing wasn't wrong. it's so difficult to win. >> let's bring in rich besser on this, doctors will be examining him at some point, what will they be looking for? >> clearly this is a disturbed

individual. but, you can't jump to a conclusion as to what his psychiatry diagnosis might be, was he hearing voices? >> schizophrenia? >> exactly. we haven't heard anything so far that he was incoherent. that he couldn't talk to people. what people would take to mean "crazy." when they look back at those who do school shootings, the vast majority had inwardly directed anger and self-loathing that got turned outwardrd. most of those people were depressed. they weren't what you would call crazy. >> shooters like this, they're loners, they kept to themselves. you heard the mayor right there, we'll learn a lot in coming days, this guy had friends, he put down roots. >> their inward perception of what their life is like is not what other people are seeing. they'll talk to his family and friends and get a picture of

him. to make a diagnosis is premature. >> even if he was schizophrenic, he could still be schizophrenic and yet determined by the law to be insane. >> rich, you spent a lot of time at the centers for disease control. helping, you know, looking at traumas like this, what's most important in colorado right now? >> i think what's important to realize that you don't have to have been in colorado to have been traumatized by this. people across america have been traumatized. you need to see what impact. in particular children, can develop posttraumatic stress disorder from repeatedly seeing this. you need to pay attention to that. focus on people who can't go about their day-to-day activities. having trouble sleeping and eating. make sure that they're talking about this and getting appropriate care.

the closer to the event, the more that will appear. colorado is ground zero. >> rich, thank you. much more on this when we come back. our roundtable tackles the big questions all of us are asking. in alabama we had more beautiful blooms... in mississippi we had more good times... in louisiana we had more fun on the water. last season we broke all kinds of records on the gulf. this year we are out to do even better... and now is a great time to start. our beatches are even more relaxing... the fishing's great. so pick your favorite spot on the gulf... and come on down. brought to you by bp and all of us who call the gulf home.

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former pennsylvania governor ed rendell. and our own cokie roshts. george, these rituals have become all too familiar. i think the wall street journal may have posed the question going forward best, how does a fair society protect its from a twisted mind? >> by recognizing that this is the problem, an individual's twisted mind. there's a normal human instinct to try and explain things like that. in the modern age, we try to explain these outcroppings of evil in terms of some defect in the social system. by some prompting of society. which once isolated could be corrected. we wouldn't have these things anymore. what makes these things scary, columbine, virginia tech and this, is precisely the fact that there is no social motive whatever, discernible. the great killers of the 20th century, lenin, stalin, hitler,

told us in excruciating details why they were doing it. they had theories. the unabomber had a theory. he wrote it out, that's how he got caught. they have a political motive of some part. the beginning of wisdom about this is to understand the randomness of it. >> but, you know, at the same time that that is true, there are some things that are warning signals, one is buying thousands of rounds of ammunition, in a short period of time, and you know, on the internet, the internet knows what size dress i wear, you know? i mean, everything is gathered, all of that information is available. and at some pot, when somebody is buyinthousands of rounds of ammunition and 100 magazines. 100-round magazine. i went on the internet yesterday to see about that. it was nothing. you can get it easily.

and that should be some signal that the law enforcement authorities are told about. >> i think that's certainly right. but i wouldn't make the mistake that we can make the perfect set of gun laws to prevent this from happening. the ten worst gun crimes in recent history, five of those were using handguns, weren't using these rifles, there are very disturbed people out there, i think to make this into a gun issue rather than a mental health issue, has a limited payoff. i think we have a mental health epidemic. >> you got to do everything. i mean, you know, we really -- the founding fathers didn't think that the right to bear

arms included bazookas, assault weapons and all the rest. i think that there are reasonable images to every last right we have, and i don't think that the right -- i think it's responsible to say, the right to bear arms doesn't include assault weapons. daniel patrick moynahan said, if we had the right to bear arms, we also have the right to tax bullets. maybe we should go that way. maybe it should cost you $1,000 a bullet if you want to buy ammunition -- >> george, they're both right. they're going to reduce their frequency. no one in america should be able to have -- no citizen should be able to have an automatic assault weapon. no citizen should be able to have a clip with more than ten bullets in it. had they let the assault weapons expire, the gun that he bought would have been illegal. he bought that gun at gandor magazine. he wouldn't have had that

100-round magazine. >> george, this is the debate that you're trying to resist. >> well, there isn't a human itch in a common age, i think we should resist that, before locating this in some defect in america society, deal with norway, that was where a young man on an island, killed 67 teenagers, that didn't include the eight he killed in downtown oslo, there are deranged people in the world. >> that happened in norway once. it happens in america three times a year. >> there's another side to this. and it is the incredible pornographic violence that has crept into our culture in terms of the entertainment business. and that has now gone global. a movie like "batman" is a global movie. which is why people are beginning to get these kind of

weird ideas. but you can't legislate entertainment. >> but i think it's a mistake even to look at this as purely a cultural phenomenon. when we had the gabby giffords terrible massacre, i spoke with steven, a renowned experts on schizophrenics. this is a cross-cultural phenomenon. what we don't have in this country is a system of recognizing, of reporting, of treating mental illness in an appropriate fashion. >> that is completely true. mental illness is a terrible problem in this country. so, that, i couldn't agree with you more, but it's also true that you can't do the kind of damage with mental illness that this person did or allegedly did unless you have an assault weapon. >> that's not true. in virginia tech, he had two handguns and he killed 32 people. it's simply not true. >> automatic handguns.

>> you don't understand the difference. >> automatic handgun. you pull the trigger -- >> in the old days, a revolver had six shots. you had to reload the six shots. this guy, police estimate, 50 to 60 rounds in a minute. no one should have that type of killing machine. come on, america. george is right. we should have been having these discussions not after but two weeks before. >> i want to bring this question to joe klein, let me put on this poll, a gallup poll the support for gun laws over the last two decades. they have gone steadily down. should gun laws be more strict? it's the dark green line there. joe, how do you explain that even though we have had all of those mass killings. >> i think because politicians

stopped talking about this, in 1994, the democrats lost the house, the mythology that evolved from that was that, the national rifle association picked various congressional districts and defeated democrats who supported gun control. i don't know if that's entirely true. but democrats have checked out of this debate ever since, including the president of the united states, and so there hasn't been a debate about gun control since then. >> the truth is on assault weapons ban, it was republican women who got that through the congress. the republican men voted for it, 23%. 67% of republican women voted for it. and of course it was a one-vote victory. >> george that poll is a little askewed right after gabby giffords. the poll on limiting magazines to ten bullets in a clip -- 71 prkt approval. let me also say, what joe said is correct. the nra, part of it is, i ran in pennsylvania, the second biggest nra. i ran statewide three times.

the nra vigorously opposed all three times. >> also, if people want to complain about the nra the smart thing for them to do is to organize, you know, get their own lobbying group that has the same kind of clout. >> aurora, colorado, very intelligent. i defy you to write a gun control law to prevent someone like this from getting the arms that he wants. i just think that this is a mistake. a moment ago joe made a statement, he gave us an theory, it's an empirical theory, which is the globalization of entertainment will cause or is causing things like this to happen more and more, these are testable hypothesis. let's test them.

>> it's true that we're seeing more frequent incidents like this in this country. i mean, we're on a national sugar rush in this country. the internet is part of it. you know, the entertainment industry is part of it. the irresponsibility about gun laws is part of it. i mean, it's all together. >> listen, we can make all of declarative statements that we want. but there is no shortage of data in criminology. in fact, it's one of the most researched areas of social science. when we had the gun law, there wasn't a decrease, when we let it expire, there wasn't a decrease. we have had a gradual decline in gun violence in parts, because of better policing. and in part of incarceration. i think some of these statements that we're having more of these incidents, they are simply not true. >> somehow i don't remember these happening every month as a kid. >> they're not happening every month.

>> but more often. >> they're more violent. they're more violent because we armed these people with weapons that are made for combat only. combat only. >> we're all going to sit around and agree if we got together and had legislative majority, this won't happen anymore. >> george, we said that it can happen less. >> and less deadliness. >> george -- >> we don't know. this person's apartment was booby-trapped to the hilt. do we really think that he couldn't have constructed some kind of weapon -- >> why didn't they go to authorities? >> i think the lack of connectivity and the lack of neighborliness. and not to get involved when

someone is behaving oddly -- >> i'm just shocked to hear a conservative like george will making an all or nothing on this argument. people died from getting the polio vaccine, doesn't mean that we should get rid of it. if this can limit some the number of gun incidents, if some laws can limit the number of gun incidents. we should have them. >> however clever the experts are going to assemble, how ever meticulous you draft what statute you wind up passing, the world is going to remain a broken place. >> of course they are. but we can limit the frequency. he bought these gun stores at gandor mountain and bass pro. this middle-class kid went to gandro mountain and bass pro. >> and i learned that it cost $2,000, so someone had to loan

this young gentleman money. >> this young man as well, generally, these are done by men, usually young, although, not always who, one of the most confounding things that i heard from the mayor, he wasn't the typical loner you would expect, having a life yet having this secret world. >> we don't know about it. i thought that dr. richard besser was very smart in telling us not to jump to conclusions about us. he's crazy, i mean, somebody doesn't do this without being crazy, but why, what set him off? why "batman"? and all of that. those conversations will go on. >> and george, one of the other questions that i have, we're doing it today, we're doing the whole show basically on this subject, does that somehow create the opportunity for people to say, there's a payoff here? >> right. >> well, obviously, if the

payoff is to get on television. if the payoff is to get notoriety and publicity, sure. but that's no reason for not talking about these things. >> again, george, that is an empirical questions, do we have copy-cat killers as a result of this? what are the motives of this? why did lee harvey oswald do it? john wilkes told us. he thought that he was killing a tyrant. these are not -- most of these events aren't mysteries. >> you're right, george. these tend to happen with single men of a certain age, that's also the age at which certain mental illness starts to manifest itself. it'sing a vated in drugs and alcohol. and i think it's aggravated in a societal sense -- this guy lived alone. if he had a roommate, he would have seen something that's a bit odd. all of these factors contribute.

but they are, as george said, you can study them, you can analyze them. we have a history. it's simply not the case that we have had an increase in gun crime. that's factually wrong. >> george is absolutely right when he says that we can't prevent it, but, there is certain restraints that we can put on the abilities of these crazy people to buy guns, buy certain kinds of ammunition, and to buy other equipment as well. >> and then to report it. i mean, to me that's the failure here. and that's where the public policy is pretty easy it seems to me, to be able to report someone buying thousands and thousands of rounds in a short period of time. >> we have take a quick break. everybody, stand by. we'll be right back. quick break. everybody, stand by. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] how can power consumption in china,

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to begin, let me show a bit of what president obama said a little over a year ago at the memorial service for the victims of the gabby giffords shooting. >> at a time where our discourse has become so sharply polarizing it's important for us to pause for a moment and make sure that we're talking with each other in a way that heals, not in a way that wounds. >> george will, some said that was one of the best speeches of president obama's presidency. he was calling for civility in our public discourse. others would say, it didn't last long. >> it didn't last long. on the run-up to aurora, that interrupted the campaign, we have seen an outpouring of negative ads, the sort that i don't remember, negative ads, we all understand that. there's nothing inherently with

them. but this year, it's a particularly brutal bombardment that we're getting. if anyone thinks from a month now that we won't be back at it, we'll be back in it. >> nothing changes. everybody calls for civility. in theory, everybody wants it. voters want it. they're afraid it doesn't work. >> joe, you're talking about a lot of reasons going into any tragedy, one thing that the president talked about a year ago, maybe our polarizing political environment is also, just creating a lot of anxiety out in the country. lot of anger that may spark people. >> i don't know. i think that, when you go into the country, as i do, the vast majority of people are neither left, nor right, they're someone in the middle. and when you look at the polling on most issues there's a 60% to 80% majority in favor of lot, you know, same policies, like gun policy, revenues.

reducing budget deficits. >> i think we're a polarized electorate, we see that in the surveys. these negative ads, petty ads, why these haven't worked, is that the 47-47 aren't going to change their minds. the rest of people are having life. they have summer vacations. they have families and they have kids. >> that may true, except the polls also show a great desire on the part of american people for us to accomplish things. for us to move away from this polarization. >> the truth is, it's not just the people are uncivil, the governor makes a good point, is that they're not getting anything done and that is -- that gets very frustrating. >> say what you will about or against our political parties,

they're magnificent market research mechanisms. they respond to every appetite. if you don't like our party or country, they're giving people what they think, what the country will respond to. >> another theory perhaps that the political parties are responding to their money givers more than they are to the general public. george, let me -- we had a poll in "time" magazine, we asked people, would you rather have a congressperson who compromises to get things done or sticks by his or her principles 89% -- said they would rather -- >> but they don't vote that way. >> one of the big problems, >> one of the big problems, now, and george will said it correctly, he said that we poll and we do this, we don't lead anymore. we don't lead.

our leaders don't get out there and stake out the moral high ground. if you don't like it, vote against me in the next election. but that'shat i believe. >> and people claim that they're desperate for leadership and that they want leaders. whether they mean it or not, is another question. but they claim that's what they want. >> i think until this campaign was interrupted, it had beginning with the president's speech on july 13th, in roanoke, we have two leaders. the speech that if you build it, you didn't really build it. that kind of statement of the progressive vision, that, in fact, we're all social preachers in society. we're all involved in asserting propositions that no one denies. but it detonated mitt romney who came out and suddenly -- one of the greatest columnist

that america ever produce d who once said, the difference, the similarity between professional wrestling and american politics is the absence of honest passion. we had honest passion on the part of the president and on the part of mitt romney. >> we're always asking about a campaign about morals. paul ryan has been writing about it. >> the basic argument about the role of government. >> right. how big should government be? how much resources should be devoted to government? how much we should celebrate individual accomplishments? this is what a campaign should be about. i hope that we get back to that. >> the only problem is, that also becomes fraught, because people think of government as evil. so, you know, you have to be very careful when you talk about just government as government. >> joe, any hope for first principals that make a

difference? >> i thought so, watching the republican primaries during the year, i don't know at this point whether we can. it would be a wonderful thing to have. >> thank you very much. illuminating discussion on a difficult day and a difficult weekend. we'll be right back to remember the victims of friday's tragedy. one is for a clean, wedomestic energy future that puts us in control. our abundant natural gas is already saving us money,

producing cleaner electricity, putting us to work here in america and supporting wind and solar. though all energy development comes with some risk, we're committed to safely and responsibly producing natural gas. it's not a dream. america's natural gas... putting us in control of our energy future, now. in memoriam this morning, we remember the lives cut short in colorado. petty officer third class officer, john larimer, described as an outstanding shipman. alex sullivan, who was celebrating his 27th birthday. rebecca ann wingo, a mother of two. two men who died trying to shield their girlfriends. matthew mcquinn and alexander teves. navy veteran and father, jonathan blunk.

aspiring sportscaster jessica ghawi. who just last month narrowly escaped another shooting in toronto. micayla medek. she described herself online as a simple, independent girl. gordon w. cowden, a father who had taken his two teenagers to the movie. alexander boik, preparing to start college in the fall. air force reserve staff sergeant jesse childress and the youngest victim, veronica moser-sullivan, just 6 years old. and now, we honor our fellow americans who serve and sacrifice. this week, the pentagon released the names of nine soldiers and marines killed in afghanistan. nine soldiers and marines killed in afghanistan.

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let's build a smarter planet. that's all for us today. thank you for sharing part of our sunday with us. david muir will be anchoring from aurora on "world news" tonight and i'll see you tomorrow on "good morning america." from aurora on "world news" tonight and i'll see you tomorrow on "good morning america." impact life expectancy in the u.s., real estate in hong kong, and the optics industry in germany? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 70% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. wby what's getting done.ion, measure commitmentxpenses the twenty billion dollars bp committed has helped fund economic and environmental recovery. long-term, bp's made a five hundred million dollar commitment to support scientists studying the environment.

and the gulf is open for business - the beaches are beautiful, the seafood is delicious. last year, many areas even reported record tourism seasons. the progress continues... but that doesn't mean our job is done. we're still committed to seeing this through.